“Your Career Advisor” is responding this week to:

• How can I handle my pay raise request? c
• Is it time for me to move on? e
• How to get into Investment Banking? e

All reasonable questions related to careers, skill development or employment related issues – sent to advisor@skill-link.com - would be addressed in this section every week.

Q1: How can I handle my pay raise request?

I am 25 years of age, a graduate of the Arab Academy in Alexandria in June 2002 with a BA in Tourism Management. After graduating I worked in a five stars hotel in Sharm El Sheikh for about 3 months as a Marketing Coordinator. I used to get a good salary as a fresh graduate which was LE.1,850 Gross + accommodation and transportation etc.

Unfortunately I quit the job due to some problems at work in addition to the fact that I was not really comfortable and didn't really like what I was doing.

After months at home, I got that job at a travel agency where I work now as a tour coordinator. Actually I am doing all what a tour operator does (ie tailoring programs & packages for foreign groups and individuals, quoting prices, doing reservations and all the other things. + I sometimes do meet & assist services for certain clients, other times I accompany tourists in Sinai Sharm, Dahab, Safaris etc.). I like what I am doing although it is very exhausting. I am interested in such a career and I am comfortable with my colleagues, my boss, the manager and the owner. But the problem (which I think you've figured it out by now) is that I earn a very low salary, which is Basic L.E 500. At the beginning I accepted the offer because I was fed up of sitting at home beside I was after gaining experience. I've been working for 3 months now (and I am not claiming that I've gained enough experience) but I feel that I should be getting more than that. I am working hard and inside me I know that I am worth more. I talked to the manager about raising my salary and he told me that he'll talk to the owner.

Some days later, the manager told me that he spoke to the owner and that I should go to decide with him the amount or raise I am looking for.

I am in doubt, I don't know really how much should I ask for. I want to be realistic and in the same time satisfied. I know that I am still gaining experience and I am not looking for a great salary in the time being, but I feel that I should take more.. Please tell me how much should I ask for?

(I would like to add that I take allowances and things like that when I travel or get out of the office for any outdoor work. But it doesn't happen a lot.) Please reply to me as soon as possible as I m supposed to be speaking to the owner after tomorrow.

I apologize for boring you and getting you into lots of details, but what is a career advisor for anyway? :)

A. E. (Egypt)

Replying:

Dear Mr. E.

You are presenting your case in a clear and very objective way… The good news is that you are working in a place you like, and that it matches what you have been studying in university. It is also healthy that you are getting along well with others in the company. However, since life is never perfect the salary or in other words your compensation is an issue. And we agree with you on that.

There are many factors that affect how a salary is determined, among them is of course supply and demand, industry trends, the know how & skills required for the job, risks involved, the hours that it requires etc… Without going into too much detail, we imagine your role is important to the success of the tours you organize, or the tourists you handle (meet & assist, reservations, escorting them to Sinai etc…); definitely not being cheerful with them or committing mistakes in reservations etc… would leave a negative impact on your company. You are also, part of the revenue generation machine of the company, unlike administration, finance, IT etc.. which are more of support centers.

On the other hand, we cannot really tell how your performance really is and how it is being perceived by other, are you a hard worker, very reliable, self motivated and requiring minimal supervision? or you need improvement on one or more of these fronts?

Assuming you are an above average person (at least) and performing the effort you described to us, you are definitely underpaid. Just to compare, a receptionist with average English, minimal PC skills, that works regular hours and does not have to leave her desk in an average company would be making this salary if not more (definitely higher if she is working in a more sophisticated place or a large joint venture or multinational).

How much should you be earning? difficult to put a precise figure to it… you will noticed we used earning (to cover salary and all other income regular or not)… but it can only be fair to say it should be for someone in his first year on the job like you LE 1,000 to LE 1,200.

For the sake of comparison, one of Egypt's largest banks, MIBank is recruiting tellers those days, fresh out of university and paying them LE 1,200. While, your job maybe more exciting and with more growth potential on the long run, you have a strong case to double your salary.

Now, how to negotiate it is another story, your boss or the owner, may not easily accept the concept of doubling… forget the amount, just the concept… You may propose alternative solutions, such as special bonus (pre agreed amounts) on tours you organize, % of bookings you make, a fixed sum for everyday you are away with a group etc… This way, it will seem more linked to revenues made by the company and probably, if these amounts are reasonable for both sides, it can make you reach or exceed the figure we mentioned.

Another opportunity, you may want to take, is let the owner know that at the beginning of the new year (2004), you would expect a serious salary review based on your performance. Usually the start of a year is an adequate time to adjust salary - and it is not very far from where we are now. It also, would not make him - the owner - feel like he is being cornered by you to give you a pay raise, but it rather came as a natural outcome of the regular annual salary review of all staff.

We hope the above was of some use to you.

Good Luck

Q2: Is it time for me to move on?

I have been employed in a well established international organization based in Cairo for three years now, before which I was in a multinational Audit firm also in Cairo. My total years of experience are about 7 years in audit and finance. My assumption is that it is three years that you can give your best in a position, after which, there's no added value, neither to the employee nor to the employer and you have to move, even if within your organization. What also made me believe in that is that a friend of mine is working in a multinational company in Paris, and their policy is that you have to move in not more than three years; otherwise you'll be seen as idle. The new news is that within this organization you can also shift careers e.g. (his finance manager moved to be the sales manager) bottom line was the managerial skills. N.B. This organization is a very well known multinational organization with the head office in the US and serving every place in the world working in various products i.e. they know what they're doing.

Where are we from that In Egypt?? Is this applicable also in our country, as I really believe in that but it's a bit risky to have such a move, since off course it's not applicable to move easily within the Organization that I'm working in, besides I'm in a high category of pay in comparison to my colleagues with the same qualifications. This makes it hard for me to move easily, switch careers…etc.

You cooperation in this matter will be highly appreciated.

A. F. (Cairo)

Replying:

Dear Mr. F.

That is not an easy question to answer, because it requires a long discussion, and more importantly because it differs from one person to the other, or rather from one type of professionals to the others. Some people place the highest priority on job security and stability as long as the environment is OK and the pay is reasonable, others are more after the challenge and doing/learning new things all the time…. A third category are drifters… they really just hang around and see where the tide takes them… and so on.

While the above categories depend on the personal character, a country's culture also plays a role in determining what percentage of individuals fall in each category. We believe that Egypt is rather on the slow pace… where not that many fit the very ambitious / growth oriented type. One cannot also deny it has to do with the employment market and general economic conditions.

Some jobs are by their own nature, more dynamic and hence one can spend in them many years without being - or feeling - obsolete or not benefiting or developing. These could include consulting, advertising, law practice, corporate banking, journalism etc… You will notice they tend to be more on the professional services side or in particular jobs in the service sector. Others may be more limiting on that front, for example someone in accounting or a secretary or a procurement officer etc…

With regards to what you stated in your message, some companies intentionally instill rotation programs, specially for their more promising professionals to make them well rounded executives in the future, benefit from their diversified experience and ensure that new blood and ideas are regularly injected in various functions. Hence, some multinationals would appoint the Head of Information Technology (often referred to as the Chief Information Officer) from outside the IT Division… others would appoint the HR Director from among their line managers, not necessarily having an HR background. The rational is that these function are there to support the business, and that they should be more business driven by a generalist.

Does this happen in Egypt? very rarely…. In most cases it happens in multinational companies that operate here. For instance Microsoft Egypt's Human Resources Manager was previously a very successful Marketing Manager in the company. Similarly, Vodafone's HR & Admin General Manager, which was interviewed on skill-link.com's Interest Zone a few month ago in the "Close Up On Professions" section, started his professional life with Xerox in the Technical Department, a few years later moving to Marketing before assuming the position of HR manager at a later stage. There are obviously other cases, but those were presented for the sake of making a point. But in general it does not happen.

With regards to your own particular case, you are the better judge of what you are really doing and how satisfied you are. If you feel you can be better off elsewhere then you should be discreetly exploring other opportunities. Do not make money a key stumbling block…. If you find a place where the environment is acceptable to you and your new role will allow you to expand your knowledge and learn new skills, this may reward you on the medium and long term. In other words we are not saying you should go for a 50% pay cut, but up to a 25% lower income with all the other benefits we mentioned should make you seriously consider alternatives.

You should also be aware there are moves that are more drastic then others. Someone switching from finance to agriculture is drastic, but it happens, as in PICO Agriculture's Managing Director case (he used to be Finance Manager and now is heading there very successful agriculture operations). Other moves could be softer, such as banking and finance professionals joining Oracle to become implementation consultants for their software to banks or other institutions … after a while, these professionals will find it too interesting to consider moving back to regular banking or finance jobs ….(this is a true story from Egypt - 2003).

We hope the above was of some use to you.

Good Luck

Q3: How to get into Investment Banking?

I would like to start by congratulating you on your input in this progressive web-site!

My dream is to pursue a career in Investment Banking, I believe I have the relevant educational back ground (undergraduate: Accounting, MBA-Finance and currently working on the CFA). Throughout the years I mastered most of the required computer skills (all Microsoft Office applications + Visual Basic applications), my English is fluent. I have six years of work experience in Trading (Currencies and Bonds).

My problem is I don't have "work experience", do I need to mention that most "Investment Banks" are looking for 2-3 year experience in "Investment Banking" for an entry level job??!!! The best thing I could come up with is trying to find a related job, get some experience then make the shift to investment banking!

I need to know if my idea makes sense? if yes, do you think working as an Auditor or a Research Associate can qualify as an investment banking related job?

I appreciate your help

PS: I chose Auditor and Research Associate deliberately as employers are willing to forgo experience.

R. O. (undisclosed location)

Replying:

Dear Mr. O.

Thank you for your kind words about "Your Career Advisor" and skill-link.com.

The way your message sounds (or reads) is that you are probably not in Egypt… that is because :
1. In Egypt, Investment Banking is a relatively new industry / profession (dating from the mid nineties) and hence, a number of professionals joined it without experience or moving from another related field (such as corporate banking or finance).
2. Investment Banking as a business has been in a bad shape since 2000, due to the economic problems the country is facing, the stagnant capital market, the lack of liquidity and the dwindling interest of foreign investors. Hence, the flow of investment banking deals has deteriorated and lots of firms have reduced their head count… in other words, it is not the best time to get into Investment Banking now a days in Egypt !

Having said the above, if you are in Europe or North America, let us assume London or New York, the two key financial markets, the industry is also not at its peak… of course it is all relative. This has resulted in thousands of professionals with corporate finance, investment banking and other related experience being redundant (either unemployed or currently working in other roles); hence, if and when the need arises they would be more attractive for recruitment than an entry level person - probably around 30 years of age - who despite a good and relevant education does not have the same background.

We cannot further advise you if you are living outside Egypt or the Arab region unless we know more details about you, including the schools you attended. If you are in our part of the world, then what we could recommend is work in a related field, definitely not Audit. Since audit is not a typical route to such jobs and the usual intake of good audit firms (the big four) is fresh graduates. Research, in brokerage firms is closer and more relevant, and the intake could be of more mature professionals, specially that you have exposure to bonds and Egypt is in need of professionals with experience in such a financial instrument. Now brokerage firms are not in recruitment mood because of the state of the stock market, but at least the field of work should be on your radar screen. Other closer / more relevant fields, where you will not count as a fresh graduate could be investment management (companies and funds with private equity investments), credit rating companies or financial advisory. You may also consider, getting into the finance department of one of Egypt's largest business groups (eg. Orascom, Ezz etc…), they have units to monitor their subsidiaries, evaluate new projects, work on shareholders/investors communication, negotiate with banks and other institutions the issuance of bonds etc.. a few years of experience there would give you more credentials on the investment banking front.

None of the above, are a sure way to investment banking, but at least they may get you into a field of work you could be more interested in.

We hope the above was of some use to you.

Good Luck

Note from the editor: 
Employer names and inquiry sender names were withheld for confidentiality

Top